Kowalski wrote:

aliceb wrote: funny you should say that about Liverpool, as, according to the book about John Barnes (out of his skin?) Liverpool used to be the protestant club and Everton the catholic one. I always thought that too Alice. I'm sure I read somewhere that Liverpool FC had roots in the Orange Lodges aswell.......? Apparantly St Domingo's (Everton's original name) was a Methodist Church although it does sound Catholic to me.......?

Everton were founded by methodists. But shortly after they moved to Goodison leaving that Orangeman Houlding behind Dr Baxter, a prominent Catholic doctor and a leading light in the catholic community, joined the Everton board. With him came the thousands of Irish Catholic families from the Scotland Road area who duly became Everton supporters. Thus Everton supporters were a good mixture of protestants and catholics while LFC was more a protestant club. However there was never some kind of sectarianism as in other rivalries. Until the fifties it was normal to support both teams.

At the beginning of the sixties Everton had a match against Rangers, where the fans of the Rangers started to insult and attack Everton fans for being Irish and catholic. After that time some fans Rangers had a friendship with LFC whilst Evertonians were paired with Celtic. Two songs from the sixties might underline this:

Oh we hate Bill Shankly, and we hate St John
But most of all, we hate Big Ron
And we'll hang the kopites one by one
On the banks of the Royal Blue Mersey

So to hell with Liverpool and Rangers too
We'll drown them all in the Mersey
And we'll fight, fight, fight with all our might
For the lads in the Royal Blue Jerseys.


If you're feeling tired and weary
And your heart just skipped a beat
You know you'll get your heads kicked in
Way down on Heyworth Street
To your cries of No Surrender
You'll hear our famous noise
Get out you Orange Bastards
We're the Harry Catterick Boys
We're the boys from Heyworth Street
We're Loyal and we're True
And when we see the Liverpool
We'll kick fuck out of you
To your cries of No Surrender
You will hear our Famous noise
Get out you Orange Bastards
We're the Harry Catterick Boys

I know Evertonians,who prefer Rangers, some more who like Celtic and a lot of guys, who just say they don't give a fuck. All of the Evertonians I know hate these orange marching bastards.

Cheers Welf, interesting stuff.

Any of you older members remember a play on BBC in the 60s (!) about supporting Everton called 'The Golden Vision' ? It was about a group of lads who go on an away trip to see Everton play Arsenal. It was a 'gritty' Wednesday Play I think. In this play the Everton supporters and their families were portrayed as very Catholic.
The Golden Vision refered to an Everton player called Alex Young I think. Sorry I'm being vague but I was just a kid and the Wednesday Play wasn't always suitable viewing!

Alex Young was indeed 'The Golden Vision', Les. You can't argue with a nickname like that.

Have to agree that the shirt colour thing is a co-incidence. Also it doesn't always stand up. Whilst Dundee FC do indeed play in blue, their Catholic rivals Dundee United play in 'tangerine,' a shade of, wait for it...... orange.
Hearts play in (dark) red. Also, the Northern Ireland national side play in green (without even a hint of orange; unlike the strip of the Republic)*.

*Commonly referred to, especially by Northern nationalists as the "green, white and gold," the Irish tricolour is officially and deliberately green, white and orange. The green and orange representing the two communities with the white representing peace between them.

GeordieLes wrote:

Any of you older members remember a play on BBC in the 60s (!) about supporting Everton called 'The Golden Vision' ? It was about a group of lads who go on an away trip to see Everton play Arsenal. It was a 'gritty' Wednesday Play I think. In this play the Everton supporters and their families were portrayed as very Catholic. The Golden Vision refered to an Everton player called Alex Young I think. Sorry I'm being vague but I was just a kid and the Wednesday Play wasn't always suitable viewing!

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This link gives all the info on the above.

For a while that great film (I have just recently watched it for the 11th or 12th time and still find new details) by leftwing Ken Loach was available through google/video. Now I own a copy it. Anybody who's interested in that film that's not just about Everton but football in general just tell to me.

BTW: That St. Luke's Church next to the stadium belongs to the Church of England. Just to make clear that Everton are not a ctholic club, there are supporters from both sides.

I'm finding this an interesting thread....so if I may?
I honestly think most fans don't give a shit and they just want to follow the team because of family or maybe the area they come from. Like pissed off christophe I believe it is probably urban myth.
(The Golden Vision) Alex Young, was a very famous Hearts player in the late 50's. Hearts sold him to Everton and he was idolised at Goodison. Fans of both clubs love him to this day.
I'm a member of a Hearts supporters club based in NW England. Not last season but the two previous we had our player of the year dance at Goodison in the Alex Young suite. Alex was our guest of honour.
So, apart for a few narrow minded idiots I'd go along with it being a bit of a myth.

I just noticed the refernce to Red Attitude...
Does anyone actually know what happened the most excellent Red Attitude magazine? I recall that it was really well put together.
Did the makers ever go onto create a website or a message board?
Or did they just get disillusioned with United's overtly capitalist/middle class direction?

What's the redeveloped Millerntor stadium like these days, I have not been there for about 5 years now? Please tell me it's not like Old Trafford in minature!
Ross

Ross wrote:

I just noticed the refernce to Red Attitude... Does anyone actually know what happened the most excellent Red Attitude magazine? I recall that it was really well put together. Did the makers ever go onto create a website or a message board? Or did they just get disillusioned with United's overtly capitalist/middle class direction?

I've reason to believe that at least a couple of the lads who were involved with this (and who were also involved in the anti-fascist magazine 'Searchlight') are now amongst the FC United of Manchester faithful.
Indeed FCUM fans have been 'targetted' for inclusion on the infamous and despicable 'Redwatch' website.

Yes, this is correct - many were involved in the anti-Glazer takeover movement as they saw this as the club being taken from the fans. They were also involved in the book below which may be of interest:

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RED ACTION STATEMENT ON 'NO RETREAT'

October 31 2003

Due to the controversy surrounding the launch of a book called 'No Retreat' by Dave Hann and Steve Tilzley due out on November 1, which is presented by the authors as a true and honest account of their involvement in militant anti-fascism over two decades, we are now putting out this statement.
As preview copies of the book have not been made available we cannot comment with any authority on the contents.
Of the character of the authors we can say this. As a result of serious breaches of trust, Tilzley and Hann were either expelled or forced to resign from Anti-Fascist Action (AFA) and Red Action respectively.
Following the attempted theft of extremely important AFA intelligence data, Steve Tilzley was shown the door by AFA in 1993.
Sometime in 1994 Dave Hann was arrested and charged in connection with a street robbery involving a gay man. It was many months before the national leaderships of RA or AFA were made aware of the charges. An immediate investigation revealed disturbing evidence of Dave Hann's involvement in similar anti-social activity. Shortly after his trial at Liverpool Crown Court, where his co-defendant pleaded guilty, Dave Haan resigned from Red Action. On being confronted with the testimony of former associates, and in the presence of two officers representing national AFA, and a leading anti-fascist resident in the city, Hann confessed his guilt and offered his immediate resignation from AFA. He also surrendered his involvement in the football fanzine Red Attitude with which AFA was publicly associated. Not long afterwards he left Manchester.

unfortunatly that dick sits not (too) far away from me (although he's not been seen for some time).

the first i was aware of it was some bloke was complaining to a steward about it.
the steward simply said "yeah a few have mentioned it, it's getting sorted" (no idea if the complaints were from Newcastle, City or both).

at half time he was in the concourse shouting about his human rights & "what about the fucking paddy flags all around", as the police were escourting him out. The flags are to do with Richard Dunne & our irish fans, rather than any political statement.

the fella in question alternates between a harmless vilage idiot & a right fucking pest. Often shouted down by otherwise docile apolitical blues.

i was going to write a long message about our history & if anything, for the past 70 years or so we have had a large Jewish following & our chairman/owners have been predominantly Jewish too
which makes this cunt all the more unpalettable

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I swear when the revolution happens.......

I don't think the sectarian thing has ever been a serious issue with the two Manchester clubs either in terms of support or on the field.
For one thing Matt Busby (a Catholic) played for city in the 30s. I have Catholic friends (from Manchester Irish backgrounds in places like Gorton, Beswick, Clayton, Ancoats etc) whose families have always been staunch City supporters). I also have protestant friends whose families have always been United supporters.
As far as they Jewish support for City goes, I'm of the understanding that it was more pronounced pre WW2 and that a sizeable proportion of City's Jewish support changed allegiance to United after the former signed German POW Bert Trauttmann.

..Sectarianism is totally unacceptable in any shape or form......and this idiot at Manchester City requires a re-education that should begin with him being thrown out of the ground.