This is a question I’ve always wanted an answer to and finding this great board gives me the avenue to do so.

Why does the St Pauli club/fan base have such close links to Celtic?

It appears this outsider with its sectarian base the Celtic Club has a poor record in terms of ‘acceptance’ of those outside the Catholic fold.

I lived in a London flat of Hearts supporters for 6 months in 1983, so I know religious bigotry in football goes both ways.

As an atheist I tried to point-out to the lads in the flat that by and large they were only following their parents religious ties rather than some independent choice, thus this hatred would go on in perpetuatory – not that it made an ounce of difference!

Celtic seems an uneasy bed-fellow and the complete antithesis of the St Pauli ethos of ‘inclusiveness’.

I began supporting St Pauli via my business contacts in Hamburg and seen them play twice, so I’m not a Rangers/rival supporter come to stir things up.

I’ve only meet one other St Pauli supporter here in Christchurch (New Zealand) but a number of German tourists have approached my on the streets when I’ve been wearing my St Pauli top and made positive comments.

Cheers guys.

Paul

Hmm. Not going to jump down your throat Paul, but I think your perception of the nature of the Celtic support has come from spending too much time with Jambos.

Celtic has a proud history of inclusiveness and tolerance, so while the roots of the club are firmly in the immigrant Irish catholic community, it has always been the case that all are welcome. I'm not going to claim that 100% of Celtic supporters are liberal, tolerant, non-bigoted angels, but I don't think you will find any team in the World where that would apply.

The link between Celtic and St Pauli fans is predominantly down to a shared ethos of left-wing, anti-fascist, anti-racist politics. I would emphasise that it is a link between the fans, not the clubs. I think perhaps that the strengthening of this link in recent times is down to the fact that many Celtic fans see in St Pauli something that has long gone missing at Celtic - the link between the fans and the club, and the relative importance of the fans in that relationship.

StPauliNZ wrote:

This is a question I’ve always wanted an answer to and finding this great board gives me the avenue to do so. Why does the St Pauli club/fan base have such close links to Celtic? It appears this outsider with its sectarian base the Celtic Club has a poor record in terms of ‘acceptance’ of those outside the Catholic fold. I lived in a London flat of Hearts supporters for 6 months in 1983, so I know religious bigotry in football goes both ways. As an atheist I tried to point-out to the lads in the flat that by and large they were only following their parents religious ties rather than some independent choice, thus this hatred would go on in perpetuatory – not that it made an ounce of difference! Celtic seems an uneasy bed-fellow and the complete antithesis of the St Pauli ethos of ‘inclusiveness’. I began supporting St Pauli via my business contacts in Hamburg and seen them play twice, so I’m not a Rangers/rival supporter come to stir things up. I’ve only meet one other St Pauli supporter here in Christchurch (New Zealand) but a number of German tourists have approached my on the streets when I’ve been wearing my St Pauli top and made positive comments. Cheers guys. Paul

You are HMLoyal and I claim my prize

Sanktic wrote:

You are HMLoyal and I claim my prize

at the risk of being 'controversial', paul's comments aren't so different from a lot of people who have no interest in celtic. it's a bit of a well-kept secret outside certain circles. if you ask your average football fan in london about celtic's 'inclusiveness and tolerance', you're liable to get a shrug and a 'whatever'.

in comparison, st. pauli are a small club but a surprising amount of people have heard about them and have a vague idea of what they're about. i'm afraid that celtic are just seen by an awful lot of people as one half of the old firm, so i can understand where paul's coming from.

and before you ask, i've never lived in a flat full of jambos...

Well I have lived in a flat full of Jambos.... my family. I'm still living with a house full of Jambos.... my children. In their bedrooms you will find posters of Hearts, St Pauli, Carlisle Utd etc etc.
I agree with pissed off christophe and he is not being controversial. People (outside Scotland) know about the Old Firm but don't really give a toss.
I'm heading back over to Hamburg on 16th April for our match against Hoffenheim. I'm staying with my St Pauli/Hearts supporting friends who live very close to the ground. Come and join us for a drink folks and we can discuss the Old Firm, the effects of the Old Firm on Scottish football, Hearts and of course St Pauli.

The links aren't immediately obvious I'd agree. What's more confusing to the casual observer is that Northern Germany tends to be more 'Protestant' that the South and therefore, on thesurface, one would think a 'Catholic' club would be a very unlikely bedfellow to people from the North of Germany.
As well as the aforementioned 'left-wing' common-ground, I'd tend to go with the 'inclusiveness' theory as being a major contributory factor. Celtic's alignment with the Irish Republican/Nationalist probably helps this. For example, unlike various Loyalist groups/parties, the IRA/Sinn Fein have never been sectarian; in fact history tells us that a lot of the early leading lights in the struggle for Irish independence were protestant (eg Wolfe Tone, Parnell, Casement).

This is a subject that I often talk about with a number of English Pauli fans who live here in Hamburg - especially the English regulars in The Shamrock.
We have wondered in the past if we really are welcome in the Pauli fold given the links to Celtic and all the media hyped stereotyped connotations. We in fact find the opposite and visitors from Glasgow, Dublin or wherever just want to have a few beers with us and enjoy the day out. The only problem we have is the very occassional German with a misty eyed outdated view of Irish nationalism.
For the record I am agnostic and the rest of us atheist!!

a guy who is a St Pauli/AFC Wimbledon fan (but not on these boards as far as I know) likes Partick Thistle and wonders why they are not just as good bedfellows with St Pauli as Celtic is, and I can see his point.

Partick Thistle eh? What's that song they sing?

Hello, hello, how do you do?
We hate the boys in royal blue.
We hate the boys in emerald green.
So fuck the Pope and fuck the Queen!



It's a third side to the Glasgow equation to be considered if nothing else!

And they've got a cracking Melchester Rovers-esque strip too!

I was being Flip with the HMloyal remark - the topic has the potential to get very heated. Hate blathering on about any other team other than St Pauli on a St Pauli site, but...

As someone with no “traditional” Celtic background – Irish, Catholic or nationalist roots. I’ve never felt anything other than a Celtic supporter the same and equal of who-ever else stood beside me in the jungle (famous standing terrace). There is a problem of being seen as the other side of the old firm; two sides of the same coin. That’s an oversimplification and the result of lazy reportage. I chose my club and stay with them. It’s not some old family baggage that was forced on me. I have never in over 20 years of following Celtic felt threatened, intimidated, not accepted because I don’t come from the right background. I think this flies in the face of StPauliNZ’s ideas of what we’re about.

If the man on the Hackney omnibus says “whatever” I’ll reply “away and polish your pearly buttons and mind you don’t choke on your jellied eels” after all that’s what anyone with no interest in London/Londoners thinks, No? I don’t expect London football fans -how are arsesea hotspur doing these days?- to know or be concerned about my club’s history, why the hell should they? but I’ll always try and point out to reasonable people, yes it may bore you but the Celtic/rangers thing isn’t as simple as you think.
In short:-
1) Celtic aren’t sectarian – I’d have stopped supporting them when I grew up if that was the case.
2) Celtic aren’t a Catholic club.
3) Some Celtic fans are arseholes. I know I’m leaving myself exposed on that one

To answer StPauliNZ’s original question. I’m aware of two reasons
1) A St Pauli fan went along to a Celtic europen game and was impressed by the atmosphere and fan ethos and the number of St Pauli fans at our European games snowballed from there, with many strong friendships being made. Bear in mind this was before easyjet, Ryanair etc, so the pissed up day trippers and assorted bampots were less in evidence. These were fans, who in large numbers were prepared to spend a couple of days on a bus to see the Celtic team of the late 80’s early 90's - no fun.

2) There was a political/football meeting in London where contact between supporters of both clubs was made and grew.

I can’t be 100% certain of 2, but 1 is the one that I’ve come across more and more over the years.

One last point. How to piss off a New Zealander, tell ‘em rugby doesn’t really matter.

aliceb wrote:

a guy who is a St Pauli/AFC Wimbledon fan (but not on these boards as far as I know) likes Partick Thistle and wonders why they are not just as good bedfellows with St Pauli as Celtic is, and I can see his point.

It's a point i've thought about often. I think Thistle are so pleased to not be Celtic or rangers that they've not taken the opportunity to develop a strong Partick Thistle identity, which is a pity.
When Thistle were the takeover target of a an indian restaurant group, their self deprciating wit extended to "we'll be called paki thistle" ho bloody ho.

Ah, not such a wheeze after all.

I've also just read that their chairman is a bit, shall we say, flippant with his racist remarks.

Still think the song's quite funny though. In its own right.

Sanktic wrote:

I don’t expect London football fans -how are arsesea hotspur doing these days?- to know or be concerned about my club’s history, why the hell should they? but I’ll always try and point out to reasonable people, yes it may bore you but the Celtic/rangers thing isn’t as simple as you think.

no-one said it was boring or it was simple, and they're not being unreasonable. and no-one's knocking your club - but you live and breathe it every day. it seems obvious to me that for those who don't, it's attraction is going to be a bit of a mystery. i thought the question raised was fair enough...

I have to agree with everything Sanktic said (including point 3 ). I'm also not from a "traditional" Celtic supporting background. Brought up in Wales by English parents, neither of whom are religious. I've been going to Celtic matches regularly for nearly 15 years and have never been made to feel unwelcome.

I don't expect everyone to have an affinity with Celtic - why should they? I'd also hate to see the relationship between Celtic and St Pauli fans become "exclusive" in some way. I'm more than happy for fans of Partick, Hearts, East Fife, whoever, to follow St Pauli if they learn about the club and buy into what it stands for. Alice's Partick-sympathising friend unfortunately seems to think that's not possible.

One thing I do worry about is that some Celtic fans start to call themselves St Pauli fans just because of the perceived link between the two, without actually finding out what it's really all about.

I think I was in the same boat as OP, in that I was curious about the link.

I think the discussion has taught me quite a lot and it will lead me to investigate it further, as I always wanted to like Celtic, but the people pushing it at that time were coming from perspective that I didn't want to participate in (I am an loud and proud Atheist).

Any suggested reading on this would be appreciated.

Cheers for the information