Like Kowalski I first heard about St Pauli when I received the Rough Guide to European Football as a persent from my good lady about 8yrs ago.
Obviously the free thinking politics, anti fascism/anti racism interested me. But not just the football team, the St Pauli area also. I have a number of St Pauli friends living in this wonderful place. I look forward to teaming up with them for the Wuppertaler game.

I have supported Hearts all my life, like my father/grandfather etc etc.
But we now seem to have a little group of rightwing halfwits that have hijacked this famous old Scottish club and I'm afraid it's the old empty vessel syndrome at work.
So I started True Hearts Against Bigotry. It's a small but determined step to rid my club of these people that are trying to be something they are not.

brido05 wrote:

But we now seem to have a little group of rightwing halfwits that have hijacked this famous old Scottish club and I'm afraid it's the old empty vessel syndrome at work. So I started True Hearts Against Bigotry. It's a small but determined step to rid my club of these people that are trying to be something they are not.

WHat do you mean 'NOW' as if you just mean it's started recently! My Mum and her side of my family are from Edinburgh, my Grandad worked at a cab firm one of the jobs was a contract for Hibs, this led to the windows being put through every 12th July when the Orange walk went past, this was around 50 years ago!I was at Tynecastle in 1988 for a Celtic game, and the rabid sectarian hatred emanating from the 3 sides of the ground directed at us was vile. Hearts have had aright wing/loyalist following for as long as I have known. I'm not saying all Hearts fans are right wing fuckwits, but you are naive to think it is a recent occurence.

[WHat do you mean 'NOW' as if you just mean it's started recently! My Mum and her side of my family are from Edinburgh, my Grandad worked at a cab firm one of the jobs was a contract for Hibs, this led to the windows being put through every 12th July when the Orange walk went past, this was around 50 years ago!I was at Tynecastle in 1988 for a Celtic game, and the rabid sectarian hatred emanating from the 3 sides of the ground directed at us was vile. Hearts have had aright wing/loyalist following for as long as I have known. I'm not saying all Hearts fans are right wing fuckwits, but you are naive to think it is a recent occurence.[/quote]

I mean now because I was not around 50 yrs ago. The sectarian problem in Scotland is inbedded in society not just football. I can honestly say the first job I got when I left school was because of my religion. But bigotry comes from both sides, of course not realising this is maybe a bit naive. As you can see from my posts, the anti bigotry site I started and my support for St Pauli where my allegiance lie. We have more in common than you think. You never know one day an old firm fan might start an anti bigotry site but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm happy, no quite jealous of you living in Celtic Land, being surrounded by people routing for the one cause. Unlike me living in Jambo Land. So I guess I'm the real rebel, fighting for what I believe in and if it takes another 50 yrs, so be it. By that time I will be very old and battle scarred. With your support and not your anger directed at me this can be achieved a lot sooner.

The 'now' I refer to is when you say that you 'now' have a fascist/loyalist following as if it's a new thing, which you know isn't. You can now stop holding your breath as for some years there has been a Celtic site that is actively anti fascist, and indeed againt all bigotry regardless of where it comes from it's called 'Tiocfaidh ar La' As you can see I from my user name I stay in Birmingham, the bigotry directed against my family and friends because of being from an Irish background or having an Irish name (Dads side are Irish, Mums side Scots) was terrible, and there is still quite a strong anti Irish feeling in Birmingham. Thankfully a good few of us didn't sit passively and take it and were involved in Anti Fascist Action, so if you think your the real rebel then so be it. If you are serious about fighting bigotry at Hearts then I wish you all the best.

Quote:

So I started True Hearts Against Bigotry.

Fair play to you mate - I think you should be applauded for this.

Thanks for the encouragement. It's just sometimes I feel I'm taking a battering from both sides.

See you at the Millerntor.

I think the facist/loyalist thing is fairly new. In my opinion it dates from the mid 80s or later. About that time Rangers started to sign a lot of high profile English players and as a result a lot of English fans took an interest in Rangers and there was some crossfertilisation of the sectarian and racist beliefs of the fans from North and south of the border. This in time made it's way East to Tynecastle.

I'm not saying that there wasn't a large sectarian presence amongst Hearts fans, just that it became stronger and more noticable when mixed with the rascism of the English far right.

But that is the past. As for the present well done for trying to do something about the current situation, as you've already found it it won't be easy but I'm sure your going to stick in there

BrummieCelt wrote:

"there is still quite a strong anti Irish feeling in Birmingham"

I think that statement is hugely inaccurate and misguided to be honest, mate. The Irish community in Birmingham is huge and extremely well integrated. Indeed, there were stupid repercussions after the pub bombings in the early 70s, but that was a long time ago and things have changed dramatically since those dark days. Have you seen the St Patrick's day celebrations in Brum - both Digbeth and Erdington? How long have you stayed here?

I have an Irish surname and have experienced no hassle whatsoever, in any capacity. There is bigotry in every society - and it's regrettable that your family and friends have suffered - yet it certainly isn't 'strong' in Birmingham. On the contrary.

Birmingham is one of the most tolerant cities in the world, with a rich and diverse cultural mix, and any Irish person, whether living or visiting here, is probably more likely to be accepted and welcomed than, perhaps, an Englishman in Dublin or Glasgow.

Up St Pauli and the Villa!

Celtic played a freindly in brum a few years ago and had a lot of agro with the English right wing, but also suprisingly a ganng of Black Guys calling themselves the Zulu Warriors who joined forces with the NF and BNP to attack the Celtic fans

St Pauli Villan wrote:

BrummieCelt wrote: "there is still quite a strong anti Irish feeling in Birmingham" I think that statement is hugely inaccurate and misguided to be honest, mate. The Irish community in Birmingham is huge and extremely well integrated. Indeed, there were stupid repercussions after the pub bombings in the early 70s, but that was a long time ago and things have changed dramatically since those dark days. Have you seen the St Patrick's day celebrations in Brum - both Digbeth and Erdington? How long have you stayed here? I have an Irish surname and have experienced no hassle whatsoever, in any capacity. There is bigotry in every society - and it's regrettable that your family and friends have suffered - yet it certainly isn't 'strong' in Birmingham. On the contrary. Birmingham is one of the most tolerant cities in the world, with a rich and diverse cultural mix, and any Irish person, whether living or visiting here, is probably more likely to be accepted and welcomed than, perhaps, an Englishman in Dublin or Glasgow. Up St Pauli and the Villa!

Lived all my life in Brum Mate, now stay in Erdington. Villas firm is rife with loyalists/fascists, two leading fascists at villa are connected to the uda, (I have pictures of them selling the nf paper the flag on the loyalist Shankhill road alongside convicted uda gunnrunner Terry Blackham)
One of them was chased off a Bloody sunday commemoration whilst taking photos, another smashed up an Irish pub on the Kilburn high road after another bloody sunday demo. Dont suppose you remember the hunger strike commemorations in Brum. The Irish in Brum may be tolerated as long as they toe the line Mate but thats about it. You mention Erdington, try wearing an Ireland/Celtic/St Pauli shirt in the red lion or the leapord - no seriously don't! The Blues friendly was fecking mayhem I was there with AFA (along with Celtic casuals and Celtic anti fascists) and we helped to organise the protection of the Dubliner pub as the fascists intended on smashing it up, (they managed one window ;-)
To be fair to the black guys with the Zulus I think they were quite shocked to see who was in their midst, as the shouts of BNP get tae f*ck rang through Digbeth. I could go on Mate, there is still an anti Irish feeling in Brum imho. A good villa fanzine 'Well Prepared' was produced and goes into a lot of detail, PM your addy and i'll glady send you one.

timmalloy wrote:

"Celtic played a freindly in brum a few years ago and had a lot of agro with the English right wing, but also suprisingly a ganng of Black Guys calling themselves the Zulu Warriors who joined forces with the NF and BNP to attack the Celtic fans"

Brum is a city of over a million people - there are idiots, bigots and Birmingham City fans here. Thankfully they are a very small minority - especially in the latter's case The rest of us aren't like that.

BrummieCelt, you're referring to Villa's firms - hooligans. What do you expect from any English football firm, a workshop on perceptions of gender in single-parent families in multi-racial Britain? Sorry to be facetious, but the majority of Villa fans have nothing to do with these extremists. Neither do the vast majority of Brummies.

On the subject of Erdington pubs, you mention two. You could go pretty much anywhere else in a Celtic or Ireland top and nobody would bat an eyelid, throughout the city. In fact I was in the Charlie Hall the other night wearing my St Pauli shirt. Not a peep from anyone. In my honest opinion, I'd have less crap if I visited every pub in Brum in a Celtic top than I would if I were wearing a Villa top. I'd say roughly 50 % of my visits would result in some kind of abuse from Blues fans.

Now, how many pubs do you think I'd be welcome at in Glasgow or Dublin if I was wearing an England top?

And if you thought the Celtic / Blues game was mayhem, you probably didn't go to the Villa / Blues game at Villa Park on 03/03/03, where the Police cut all mobile phone signals within a mile radius of the ground because they had completely lost control. That's what happens when mindless thugs want to kick off, regardless of their political sensitivities, or lack of.

Brum ain't perfect by a long chalk but I can't think of many places that are half as tolerant of 'outsiders'.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that the whole population of Birmingham is racist, but there are areas in the West Midlands that have been targeted by the BNP and other fascist groups and where their political message has met with some success. That's an undeniable fact.

It interests me that some people here are attracted to St Pauli because of their forthright stance against racism and fascism but appear to be less than willing to confront racism and fascism in their own country.

Anti-fascism isn't a fashion accessory. To downplay completely the influence of groups like the BNP and NF in the West Midlands is tantamount to a 'live and let live' mentality IMHO.

Alright for St Pauli to recognise that racism and fascism exists in their city and organise against it, but not alright for Brummies - why?

Oh yeah, that's right, Birmingham is an example of tolerance - so tolerant it seems that some of us are even prepared to tolerate the fascists too...

Something wrong there surely?

And there's plenty of pubs in Glasgow where you and your Engurland top would receive a hearty welcome SPV - they're mostly frequented by anti-Irish, anti-Catholic, Rangers supporters though. They love Engurland so much that they made that top the 3rd best selling football shirt in the city!

SPV I wasn't trying to suggest that all or even most brummie folk are anti-Irish and anti- Celtic. Just trying to give a little info that you may or may not be aware of.

As for my own experiences I lived just outside birmingham (Hockley Heath) for a while and never experienced any probs. Also i wore a St Pauli top in Birmingham a couyple of years ago, on my way to and from the Boys in brown gig in Digbeth and nobody batted an eyelid.

Although this hardly means Birmingham is an ok place, it is nonetheless my personal experience.

Blarney Pilgrim wrote:

"Alright for St Pauli to recognise that racism and fascism exists in their city and organise against it, but not alright for Brummies - why?"

Eh? Who said Brummies were right to tolerate racists and fascists? Nobody should tolerate extremists - political or religious. Just as every club has its arseholes, so does every city.

But I understand the realities of life. I don't expect football hooligans to be politically correct just like I don't expect shit to smell of roses. If people can mobilise against fascists that is brilliant and I support them for doing so.

I was responding to BC's claim that there is a 'strong' anti Irish vibe in the city. I'm sorry but I have seen little to suggest that this is the case. Birmingham has the 3rd largest St Patrick's day celebration in the world after New York and Dublin. Now that's hardly what you'd expect from a city with a strong anti-Irish feeling. I think exaggerating a problem is as dangerous as downplaying one.

Personally, I applaud the anti-fascist stance of St Pauli but to be quite honest that isn't what attracted me to the club in the first place. The sheer enjoyment of experiencing a St Pauli match - the atmosphere, terrace culture, good humour of the fans, spirit of togetherness, lack of thuggery etc. - is what gives me the buzz that English football, sadly, doesn't anymore. I'm sorry about that but I am not a political activist - I'm a football fan.

Timmalloy, as one of the BBiB, may I thank you (and everyone else who came) for supporting our benefit gig. Hope to see you - as well as BP and BC - at the next one!

SPV, I was in Birmingham for the St Patrick's Day Parade 2 years ago and me and a few mates had words with a group of fascist skinheads who were drinking in the IRISH CENTRE (!!!) in Digbeth - they were tatooed quite inappropriately for that place imho; Skrewdriver, swastikas etc. - - 'ah sure aren't we all Oirish on St Patrick's Day' - what, even the fascists? No-one else in the centre even batted an eyelid that they had Nazis drinking alongside them in that club... it was embarrassing. Luckily enough the fash knew what was likely to happen to them after we arrived and cleared off pretty quickly.

You're right about the St Patrick's Day carnival being an indication of Birmingham's 'tolerance' though - sure, don't we all applaud that well-known 'Irish' pipe band from the West Midlands Police Force who regularly appear on the parade? A fine bunch of upstanding men and women who have always supported the local Irish community in Brum - just ask the Birmingham 6 how much support the West Midlands cops gave them when they fitted them up!

The fact that there most certainly is a fascist problem in the West Midlands that exists beyond gangs of football hooligans should ring alarm bells for you, but instead you bury your head ostrich-like with the statement that you're 'not a political activist but only a football fan...' - so shut up then and go talk only about football on other threads and let those of us who have got the bottle to do something about the problem get on with it.

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