Berlin's police chief has sparked outrage for warning owners of luxury cars not to park overnight in the city's Kreuzberg district after a spate of incidents in which expensive cars have been set on fire.

Berlin police chief Dieter Glietsch has triggered a storm of outrage from politicians after he warned owners of Porsche and Mercedes cars not to park their fancy rides overnight in the city's left-wing Kreuzberg district after a rash of car arson incidents.

In the past year, dozens of cars have been gutted in the immigrant-dominated neighbourhood with Mercedes and BMW's the prime targets of suspected left-wing radicals.

"No-drive areas"

Some opposition politicians in the city called Glietsch's statement "a declaration of bankruptcy." Frank Henkel, secretary general of the Christian Democrats (CDU) in Berlin, called it a "capitulation" to left-wing extremists.

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I think Kreuzberg sounds like a good and interesting area to visit. I'll go by public transport tho.

Yeah, it reminds me of the good old days in this country when people used to smash up BMWs. Having said that, when the G8 summit came to Scotland one of my mate got his car smashed up by a group of Italian Anarchists. He drove a crappy M-reg Nissan Micra?

I used to have a long distance girlfriend that lived in Berlin, that sent me a "souvenier" from a Mercedes. I wore it as a bracelet for a while.

St. Pauli in Frisco wrote:

I used to have a long distance girlfriend that lived in Berlin, that sent me a "souvenier" from a Mercedes. I wore it as a bracelet for a while.

Oh, that is so 80's.

OK, I've liberated a Merc star, too. It was sort of a rite of passage at one time.

Zim wrote:

St. Pauli in Frisco wrote: I used to have a long distance girlfriend that lived in Berlin, that sent me a "souvenier" from a Mercedes. I wore it as a bracelet for a while. Oh, that is so 80's. OK, I've liberated a Merc star, too. It was sort of a rite of passage at one time.

hahaha everyone has at some point in there life. I remember when I was at school my mate tried to 'liberate' one not realising the owner was sitting in the car! never seen a 16 stone teenager run so fast!

Zim wrote:

St. Pauli in Frisco wrote: I used to have a long distance girlfriend that lived in Berlin, that sent me a "souvenier" from a Mercedes. I wore it as a bracelet for a while. Oh, that is so 80's. OK, I've liberated a Merc star, too. It was sort of a rite of passage at one time.

Yeah, that was '89 I think!

This could be a useful route to go down for any UK St Pauli fans feeling guilty about their frequent flights to Hamburg and their detrimental effect on the environment. On your return simply torch a couple of 4x4's, and hey presto you have preserved your carbon neutral footprint. Could this get into Viz Top Tips?

brido05 wrote:

I think Kreuzberg sounds like a good and interesting area to visit. I'll go by public transport tho.

I (or rather my girlfriend) might get a flat in Kreuzberg - good that I drive a very modest Golf III

Generally, that kind of activity is a mere act of violence for fun and has no real political statement. Still don't love the police, but in this case I hope they'll catch those wankers.

astro wrote:

Generally, that kind of activity is a mere act of violence for fun and has no real political statement. Still don't love the police, but in this case I hope they'll catch those wankers.

I'm not sure I'd called the autonomen wankers no matter how residual their support is now.

Udo Bukowski wrote:

astro wrote: Generally, that kind of activity is a mere act of violence for fun and has no real political statement. Still don't love the police, but in this case I hope they'll catch those wankers. I'm not sure I'd called the autonomen wankers no matter how residual their support is now.

someone who destroys other people's property without knowing the person, without knowing the reason for having such a car or for parking there, is a wanker and it doesn't matter to me if that person is an "autonomer" or just a kid looking for fun. Wanna see their reaction if anyone breaks into their home, smashing up the whole place. Well, quite often it will be the nice home of their parents in the outskirts... - at least in Germany, might be different in the UK.
Sorry for being frustrated about persons that call themselves "left wing" but don't have a proper agenda and think that they can tell others how to live their lifes...

btw: burning cars of known Nazis at the demonstration in Hamburg at Mai 1 was a totally different thing. The only point to criticise there would be the bad publicity in the ignorant media.

astro wrote:

someone who destroys other people's property without knowing the person, without knowing the reason for having such a car or for parking there, is a wanker and it doesn't matter to me if that person is an "autonomer" or just a kid looking for fun. Wanna see their reaction if anyone breaks into their home, smashing up the whole place. Well, quite often it will be the nice home of their parents in the outskirts... - at least in Germany, might be different in the UK. Sorry for being frustrated about persons that call themselves "left wing" but don't have a proper agenda and think that they can tell others how to live their lifes...

So smashing up the status symbols and toys of the wealthy or business types with company cars who park in an impoverished area isn't a proper agenda, despite the fact that these fun-loving kids/autonomen are "sending a message"/telling others how to live their lives. But it's okay if you can prove they're right-wing... as opposed to just successful capitalists with all the baggage that would require.

I'm sure the kids and autonomen of Kreuzberg would be amused by your generalisation that they're all the spawn of rich parents too. I was last in Kreuzberg a year ago and it struck me as a relatively high crime area largely occupied by low income families. Same as the last four times I was there in the past four years.

And apologies if you think I'm some left-wing type telling you how to live your life just for taking offence that you called some of my acquaintances "wankers".

Frankly astro it sounds like you're having a bad day....

Udo Bukowski wrote:

So smashing up the status symbols and toys of the wealthy or business types with company cars who park in an impoverished area isn't a proper agenda, despite the fact that these fun-loving kids/autonomen are "sending a message"/telling others how to live their lives. But it's okay if you can prove they're right-wing... as opposed to just successful capitalists with all the baggage that would require.

Some people spend their money flying to football matches, others spend it on beers, others for cars. Some save money for years to fulfill their dreams of a shiny new car. You can criticize that and I don't understand those people as well, but each person is an individual that has to be respected.

Quote:

I'm sure the kids and autonomen of Kreuzberg would be amused by your generalisation that they're all the spawn of rich parents too.

I didn't say "all". but it's a fact that some to many of those who clash with the police in Schanze and St.Pauli are not locals. Maybe it's different in Kreuzberg.

Quote:

And apologies if you think I'm some left-wing type telling you how to live your life just for taking offence that you called some of my acquaintances "wankers".

No, I didn't accused you of telling me how to live my (or others) life, but those who think it's a valid form of political protest to smash up cars. I consider myself rather left wing as well, but simply don't get the reason or what can be achieved by such actions. Maybe I am just too stupid?
If some people that you know take such actions for good reasons (whatever that might be) I am happy to learn and to recall the insult.

Quote:

Frankly astro it sounds like you're having a bad day....

indeed a stressful one, but we had the same kind of issues (and long discussions) just a few weeks ago (May 1) when those Nazis tried to get through my "backyard" in Hamburg-Barmbek. It was brilliant to see all the different groups working together, including the "Autonomen"/Schwarzer Block. At the same time, some incidents were rather "problematic" and it is sad to see that solidarity is sometimes reduced to something that is only valid when it suits certain groups.

I really don't have the time and the nerves to discuss that in great depth, that's something that can be done much better personally than online. Generally, I am more with Kant than with urban warfare.

astro wrote:

Udo Bukowski wrote: So smashing up the status symbols and toys of the wealthy or business types with company cars who park in an impoverished area isn't a proper agenda, despite the fact that these fun-loving kids/autonomen are "sending a message"/telling others how to live their lives. But it's okay if you can prove they're right-wing... as opposed to just successful capitalists with all the baggage that would require. Some people spend their money flying to football matches, others spend it on beers, others for cars. Some save money for years to fulfill their dreams of a shiny new car. You can criticize that and I don't understand those people as well, but each person is an individual that has to be respected. A respected individual living in the locale who had saved for years for a car would be unlikely to be targetted IMO by locals these days... maybe still in the 1970s at the height of the actions against businesses run by former Nazis. But again, by your own admission, its acceptable not to look at proven Nazis as respectable people. So do you take them on individually as people or symbolically by attacking their business interests or other property? Surely at that point it becomes a question of degree: thumping them, burning their car, spraying "LOK Leipzig are fascist scum" on the wall of their favourite pub... Quote: I'm sure the kids and autonomen of Kreuzberg would be amused by your generalisation that they're all the spawn of rich parents too. I didn't say "all". but it's a fact that some to many of those who clash with the police in Schanze and St.Pauli are not locals. Maybe it's different in Kreuzberg. That's always a problem with any hardline protest; there are only so many people willing to put their face in front of a truncheon - but these people whatever their social status are often invited in by the locals to help. Quote: And apologies if you think I'm some left-wing type telling you how to live your life just for taking offence that you called some of my acquaintances "wankers". No, I didn't accused you of telling me how to live my (or others) life, but those who think it's a valid form of political protest to smash up cars. I consider myself rather left wing as well, but simply don't get the reason or what can be achieved by such actions. Maybe I am just too stupid? We've met, briefly, I didn't consider you stupid then or now. If some people that you know take such actions for good reasons (whatever that might be) I am happy to learn and to recall the insult. You know that makes sense Quote: Frankly astro it sounds like you're having a bad day.... indeed a stressful one, but we had the same kind of issues (and long discussions) just a few weeks ago (May 1) when those Nazis tried to get through my "backyard" in Hamburg-Barmbek. It was brilliant to see all the different groups working together, including the "Autonomen"/Schwarzer Block. At the same time, some incidents were rather "problematic" and it is sad to see that solidarity is sometimes reduced to something that is only valid when it suits certain groups. Can you PM or post a link on this please? I really don't have the time and the nerves to discuss that in great depth, that's something that can be done much better personally than online. Generally, I am more with Kant than with urban warfare. We'll talk about Kant some other time I hope; I suspect you'll have a huge advantage over me there! Here's hoping your day improves anyway. (Did I manage to brighten it a little here?)

There's the same in France apart from the fact they just burn any cars around , amily the one's they don't drive , and that it s in inner cities and that it's on 1st of January.
Not a political statement most of the times but mere "fun" or game against police for most of these kids.